Dylan J. Walker
December 19 at 7:36pm · Edited ·
As an atheist and former fundamentalist I write a lot about religion,
among a variety of other subjects. It's not my overwhelming focus (only
one out of the last 3 posts I wrote were about religion in any respect)
but it is there.
Since I'm a former fundamentalist I often relate what I write to m to
my own experiences with religion, which means that from time to time my
rocky relationship with my very religious and extremely conservative
family comes up. I would't say the subject comes up much, maybe once
every few months but it does come up.
When I first started writing they never noticed, but about 2 years ago
I had a series of frustrating altercations with several members of my
family that ended with one family member disowning me and being
dis-invited from Christmas.
Since then, several times when I have posted something even slightly
critical of them, even when that post is a comment on another persons
blog that they would have no reason to see, they somehow hunt down the
articles and post passive aggressive/insulting things at me. I can't
say for sure what they hope to get out of this, but If their goal is to
get me to change the way I discuss religion then this post would
indicate that they are not doing a good job.
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4 people like this.
John Secular As someone who never believed, it's
difficult for me to completely 'get' the point of view of serious
believers. To be so defiant and disregard such overwhelming evidence
(and complete lack of) just doesn't compute for me. I originally wanted
to give you my sympathy for being disowned and left out of 'Christmas',
but that may not be such a bad thing...
December 19 at 7:58pm · Like · 1
Dylan J. Walker I celebrate with my in-laws.
December 19 at 8:00pm · Like · 2
Fiona Morgan Walker Okay, look. Mom met Dan at your
wedding and she got along with him. She liked him, and so she's read a
few things on his blog. She's never intentionally "hunted down" your
internet life. She saw Dan had written about your wedding so she read
it and saw your ridiculous comment. You just assumed she hated your
ceremony because you didn't include religion, when that couldn't be
further from the truth. We all loved the ceremony, hell, I teared up
during it. You have had no basis to assume that mom hated it. You also
have no right to go around talking trash about us to other people, and
there's no reason for you to get angry when we call you out on your BS.
And we never disinvited you from Christmas. /You/
decided that you didn't want to celebrate Christmas with us.
December 19 at 8:46pm · Like
Dylan J. Walker Fiona you weren't actually there to
hear the conversation I had with Mom so you likely have only heard her
version of the "truth."
I told her that the Christmas experience with them
made me uncomfortable, it had for years but I kept it to myself, and
probably would have continued to do so if Meredith hadn't chosen to out
things about me which she knew I had chosen not to share (a jerk move
since I had kept the secret of her being gay from mom and dad for
years, which I have repeatedly taken flak from them for), so don't put
that on me. In any case since the cat was out of the bag so to speak I
admitted that I was uncomfortable and asked if they might be willing to
compromise so that Christmas could be about the whole family, I felt,
and still feel, like it was a reasonable request. It sucks being
treated like an outsider on a day that is supposed to be about family.
Mom's response was to flat out tell me that no such compromise would
happen and that if I didn't like that I was welcome not to attend.
As far as I'm concerned that series of events was,
in fact, a dis-invitation from Christmas, and mom just has a very
selective memory on this. When asked to choose between a strict and
ridged interpretation of the reason for Christmas and her son she did
not choose me. A situation I hope you never find yourself in with her
but I wouldn't hold my breath against it.
As for my assumption that she didn't like the
ceremony, it was based upon the fact that she appeared to have a scowl
on her face after the ceremony, it appeared on camera in the wedding
video and even Megan's parents commented that they thought she looked
unhappy, and given the judgmental things she has said to my face in the
past about my relationship choices It wasn't an unreasonable assumption
in my opinion.
I've never talked trash about you, and I've never
thought mom and dad's treatment of me had anything to do with you. I'm
sorry that you think I'm engaging in bull shit, but that simply isn't
the case. I may have a different perspective on what happened than you
or mom but that isn't because I'm being disingenuous, I just honestly
see the events differently, and when I talk about those events I do so
from my perspective because I don't have any other perspective to speak
from. I'm hardly the only atheist to ever have problems dealing with
relatives on the holidays, and sometimes we talk about those things.
I'm not going to stop doing that just because mom doesn't like it.
Just in the last several weeks Mom sent an awful
email to both me and Megan indirectly asserting that I was a bully, so
I don't think she has any right to criticize what was an incredibly
minor criticism by comparison. I don't have a right to get angry when
mom calls me out on my my BS? Well there is a lesson she could do to
learn in my opinion.
From my perspective I bent over backwards for years
to keep the peace and when I finally put my foot down and demanded I be
treated as an adult mom and dad both treated me like crap for it. Mom
in a manipulator and she uses passive aggression as her means of
manipulation. This isn't just about religion, even before I was an
atheist we butted heads a lot, and she often acted like she had the
right to order me around well into my 30's. I avoid her for my own
mental well being. I don't like the person I become when I'm around her.
P.S. I doubt mom would have like Dan nearly as much
if he knew that he, my best man and I spent a few hours in a strip club
for my bachelor party, with Megan's full approval of course.
December 19 at 9:30pm · Edited · Like
Fiona Morgan Walker Okay, first of all, you can't
assume what someone's thinking because of their expression. It was cold
and, honestly, mom didn't feel welcome at your wedding. You wouldn't
even talk to any of us unless mom and dad found you themselves, and the
few words you said to me were stilted and awkward.
You see what you want to see. Mom hasn't seen the
wedding videos/pictures and she says she's sorry if her face looked sad.
As for the Christmas thing, I'm not sure what you
found uncomfortable. Even as someone who's not very religious myself I
understand that they find comfort in their religion, so I see the
positives in all of that and if anything squicks me I'll just tune it
out. When you were younger you enjoyed those things, and mom wants me
to have the same Christmases you got to have. She didn't choose her
religion over you, she chose to continue her Christmas traditions for
me without any desire to subliminally disinvite you from Christmas.
December 19 at 9:39pm · Like
Megan Walker A few weeks before we got married she
wrote me an email suggesting that our marriage might not work out
because Dylan is "rigid" and "spins the truth very well", which has not
been my experience with him. If anything, I think he is sometimes TOO
honest and blunt which I admit contributes to these kinds of
disagreements. But he is open to well reasoned arguments and does
consider them deeply. I also recall a letter where she hoped I would be
able to stand up for Lila and myself if need be, with what seemed to be
an implication that Dylan would intentionally hurt us, perhaps even
physically, which I have absolutely no concerns about whatsoever. He is
very gentle and loving to both of us. It did concern me, however, that
she had such a low opinion of him. And observing over time, it seems to
be her base line that he isn't good. The Fox News video she recently
shared with us is an indication of that because it was indirectly
calling Dylan a bully for being an outspoken atheist. Why would a video
like that be any "comfort" to him? Can you imagine how incredibly
hurtful it must be to be sure in your heart that your mother thinks
you're a terrible person? He limits interactions between them because
it is so upsetting when fights inevitably happen that he can only
handle so much.
December 19 at 10:27pm · Like · 2
Dylan J. Walker Don't assume what people are
thinking based upon expressions? How exactly do you propose we live
life like that? Non verbal communication is a rather huge part of how
humans communicate. I'd bet that you make assumptions about what people
are feeling based on expressions every day.
She said "don't come if you are uncomfortable" there
is nothing subliminal about that, and I'll point out that I didn't ask
her to change everything I just asked that they try to make some
concessions for me, but mom always sees everything in absolutes.
"As for the Christmas thing, I'm not sure what you
found uncomfortable. Even as someone who's not very religious myself I
understand that they find comfort in their religion, so I see the
positives in all of that and if anything squicks me I'll just tune it
out. "
Listen to what you are saying. You are doing all the
compromising, they get to do what they want and you get to do what they
want too. Now if your OK with that fine, I used to be fine with it too,
and I did so for years after I stopped being religious, but at least
admit that is what is going on.
I would note that the difference here may be that
you were never really all that religious, I was a fundamentalist for a
number of years before I stopped believing so there are things about
those beliefs which make me uncomfortable that you probably wouldn't
give a second glance, and that is fine. What is not fine is suggesting
that I don't have a right to my discomfort because you don't share it.
That would be rather like telling a person who was mugged in a dark
alley that his trepidation about dark alleys is unreasonable because
your experience with dark alleys is positive. Well my experience was
less than positive. I give religion one star, would not recommend. It's
also fine for mom to say she won't compromise, what is not OK is for
her to, at the same time, demand that I compromise, so yes that ends in
me not attending, but to act like it's all my fault is disingenuous.
She had the opportunity to treat me like my needs matter, and like she
cared about my well being. That is not the choice she made.
And yes, I avoided them during the wedding and make
no bones about it, if it seemed like I was avoiding you it was mostly
because you were near them, and if things that I said sounded stilted
then it's because
1. I can only imagine what they (including Meredith)
have said about me to you. I'm surprised you don't think I sport a pair
of devil horns, so I'm not really sure how to interact with you because
I'm sure they impinge my character even worse behind my back than the
do to my face, and I'm not sure if you believe those things, though I'm
getting the impression that you do which is too bad, I am not really so
bad.
2. I'm not sure how anything I say may be taken out
of context, over the years mom and dad have blamed me for a number of
things including Meredith being a lesbian, and the fact that neither of
you share their religious beliefs. After I confessed to them I was not
a Christian when you were younger they would not let me be in the same
room with either one of you because they didn't trust me around
children, A week before the wedding mom sent an email to Megan
"warning" her about how I "spin" the truth. She basically called me a
liar (Megan was more angry about this than I was because I've come to
expect this stuff), do I have no right to be angry about those things
and the other myriad of insults over the years? Perhaps you think not,
but in any case I rarely speak openly to you about anything because I'm
not sure what is "allowed" and what is going to set mom off and make
her write some nasty letter or email.
If you want to change things between us and talk
more often that'd be great, but I make it a point to not go where I'm
not wanted and I just figured after all the things they have probably
said about me you probably didn't want me around all that much.
P.S. my uncomfortable feelings at Christmas stemmed
from mostly small things that add up but nothing that would have taken
away from the overall experience. For instance, it was rather
frustrating to be roped into meal prayers and sometimes asked to give a
blessing when we took turns. I didn't want to do that, but I wasn't
really given a choice. They could have worked around me in some way but
they didn't. What really made me angry was that when the issue was
brought to her attention she basically said she didn't care about my
feelings enough to address them. That was the moment I decided that I
was done making them a priority in my life, and it may be just
coincidence but my life is dramatically better today than it was then.
December 20 at 12:12am · Edited · Like · 1
Tom Hascall Cole I'm counting my blessings: my
parents and grandparents were all atheists. The only thing to argue
about over the solstice dinner was who got a drumstick.
Dylan J. Walker
27 mins · Edited ·
After another in a long series of shitty hateful interactions with my
parents I finally decided to cut them off permanently. I specifically
asked them not to contact me again.
Two days later I received a message from them. It included a paraphrase
of 1 Cor 13:1, implying that I'm incapable of love. This kind of
statement is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the
despicable behavior I've put up with over the years, but the fact that
she could not even respect me enough to honor my request to not contact
me, and when she did it was further personal attacks instead of any
attempt at apologizing for the multitude of nasty things she has said
about me, is more than enough evidence that I made the right call.