Dylan J. Walker
December 19 at 7:36pm · Edited ·

As an atheist and former fundamentalist I write a lot about religion, among a variety of other subjects. It's not my overwhelming focus (only one out of the last 3 posts I wrote were about religion in any respect) but it is there.

Since I'm a former fundamentalist I often relate what I write to m to my own experiences with religion, which means that from time to time my rocky relationship with my very religious and extremely conservative family comes up. I would't say the subject comes up much, maybe once every few months but it does come up.

When I first started writing they never noticed, but about 2 years ago I had a series of frustrating altercations with several members of my family that ended with one family member disowning me and being dis-invited from Christmas.

Since then, several times when I have posted something even slightly critical of them, even when that post is a comment on another persons blog that they would have no reason to see, they somehow hunt down the articles and post passive aggressive/insulting things at me. I can't say for sure what they hope to get out of this, but If their goal is to get me to change the way I discuss religion then this post would indicate that they are not doing a good job.
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    4 people like this.
    John Secular As someone who never believed, it's difficult for me to completely 'get' the point of view of serious believers. To be so defiant and disregard such overwhelming evidence (and complete lack of) just doesn't compute for me. I originally wanted to give you my sympathy for being disowned and left out of 'Christmas', but that may not be such a bad thing...
    December 19 at 7:58pm · Like · 1
    Dylan J. Walker I celebrate with my in-laws.
    December 19 at 8:00pm · Like · 2
    Fiona Morgan Walker Okay, look. Mom met Dan at your wedding and she got along with him. She liked him, and so she's read a few things on his blog. She's never intentionally "hunted down" your internet life. She saw Dan had written about your wedding so she read it and saw your ridiculous comment. You just assumed she hated your ceremony because you didn't include religion, when that couldn't be further from the truth. We all loved the ceremony, hell, I teared up during it. You have had no basis to assume that mom hated it. You also have no right to go around talking trash about us to other people, and there's no reason for you to get angry when we call you out on your BS.
    And we never disinvited you from Christmas. /You/ decided that you didn't want to celebrate Christmas with us.
    December 19 at 8:46pm · Like
    Dylan J. Walker Fiona you weren't actually there to hear the conversation I had with Mom so you likely have only heard her version of the "truth."

    I told her that the Christmas experience with them made me uncomfortable, it had for years but I kept it to myself, and probably would have continued to do so if Meredith hadn't chosen to out things about me which she knew I had chosen not to share (a jerk move since I had kept the secret of her being gay from mom and dad for years, which I have repeatedly taken flak from them for), so don't put that on me. In any case since the cat was out of the bag so to speak I admitted that I was uncomfortable and asked if they might be willing to compromise so that Christmas could be about the whole family, I felt, and still feel, like it was a reasonable request. It sucks being treated like an outsider on a day that is supposed to be about family. Mom's response was to flat out tell me that no such compromise would happen and that if I didn't like that I was welcome not to attend.

    As far as I'm concerned that series of events was, in fact, a dis-invitation from Christmas, and mom just has a very selective memory on this. When asked to choose between a strict and ridged interpretation of the reason for Christmas and her son she did not choose me. A situation I hope you never find yourself in with her but I wouldn't hold my breath against it.

    As for my assumption that she didn't like the ceremony, it was based upon the fact that she appeared to have a scowl on her face after the ceremony, it appeared on camera in the wedding video and even Megan's parents commented that they thought she looked unhappy, and given the judgmental things she has said to my face in the past about my relationship choices It wasn't an unreasonable assumption in my opinion.

    I've never talked trash about you, and I've never thought mom and dad's treatment of me had anything to do with you. I'm sorry that you think I'm engaging in bull shit, but that simply isn't the case. I may have a different perspective on what happened than you or mom but that isn't because I'm being disingenuous, I just honestly see the events differently, and when I talk about those events I do so from my perspective because I don't have any other perspective to speak from. I'm hardly the only atheist to ever have problems dealing with relatives on the holidays, and sometimes we talk about those things. I'm not going to stop doing that just because mom doesn't like it.

    Just in the last several weeks Mom sent an awful email to both me and Megan indirectly asserting that I was a bully, so I don't think she has any right to criticize what was an incredibly minor criticism by comparison. I don't have a right to get angry when mom calls me out on my my BS? Well there is a lesson she could do to learn in my opinion.

    From my perspective I bent over backwards for years to keep the peace and when I finally put my foot down and demanded I be treated as an adult mom and dad both treated me like crap for it. Mom in a manipulator and she uses passive aggression as her means of manipulation. This isn't just about religion, even before I was an atheist we butted heads a lot, and she often acted like she had the right to order me around well into my 30's. I avoid her for my own mental well being. I don't like the person I become when I'm around her.

    P.S. I doubt mom would have like Dan nearly as much if he knew that he, my best man and I spent a few hours in a strip club for my bachelor party, with Megan's full approval of course.
    December 19 at 9:30pm · Edited · Like
    Fiona Morgan Walker Okay, first of all, you can't assume what someone's thinking because of their expression. It was cold and, honestly, mom didn't feel welcome at your wedding. You wouldn't even talk to any of us unless mom and dad found you themselves, and the few words you said to me were stilted and awkward.
    You see what you want to see. Mom hasn't seen the wedding videos/pictures and she says she's sorry if her face looked sad.
    As for the Christmas thing, I'm not sure what you found uncomfortable. Even as someone who's not very religious myself I understand that they find comfort in their religion, so I see the positives in all of that and if anything squicks me I'll just tune it out. When you were younger you enjoyed those things, and mom wants me to have the same Christmases you got to have. She didn't choose her religion over you, she chose to continue her Christmas traditions for me without any desire to subliminally disinvite you from Christmas.
    December 19 at 9:39pm · Like
    Megan Walker A few weeks before we got married she wrote me an email suggesting that our marriage might not work out because Dylan is "rigid" and "spins the truth very well", which has not been my experience with him. If anything, I think he is sometimes TOO honest and blunt which I admit contributes to these kinds of disagreements. But he is open to well reasoned arguments and does consider them deeply. I also recall a letter where she hoped I would be able to stand up for Lila and myself if need be, with what seemed to be an implication that Dylan would intentionally hurt us, perhaps even physically, which I have absolutely no concerns about whatsoever. He is very gentle and loving to both of us. It did concern me, however, that she had such a low opinion of him. And observing over time, it seems to be her base line that he isn't good. The Fox News video she recently shared with us is an indication of that because it was indirectly calling Dylan a bully for being an outspoken atheist. Why would a video like that be any "comfort" to him? Can you imagine how incredibly hurtful it must be to be sure in your heart that your mother thinks you're a terrible person? He limits interactions between them because it is so upsetting when fights inevitably happen that he can only handle so much.
    December 19 at 10:27pm · Like · 2
    Dylan J. Walker Don't assume what people are thinking based upon expressions? How exactly do you propose we live life like that? Non verbal communication is a rather huge part of how humans communicate. I'd bet that you make assumptions about what people are feeling based on expressions every day.

    She said "don't come if you are uncomfortable" there is nothing subliminal about that, and I'll point out that I didn't ask her to change everything I just asked that they try to make some concessions for me, but mom always sees everything in absolutes.

    "As for the Christmas thing, I'm not sure what you found uncomfortable. Even as someone who's not very religious myself I understand that they find comfort in their religion, so I see the positives in all of that and if anything squicks me I'll just tune it out. "

    Listen to what you are saying. You are doing all the compromising, they get to do what they want and you get to do what they want too. Now if your OK with that fine, I used to be fine with it too, and I did so for years after I stopped being religious, but at least admit that is what is going on.

    I would note that the difference here may be that you were never really all that religious, I was a fundamentalist for a number of years before I stopped believing so there are things about those beliefs which make me uncomfortable that you probably wouldn't give a second glance, and that is fine. What is not fine is suggesting that I don't have a right to my discomfort because you don't share it. That would be rather like telling a person who was mugged in a dark alley that his trepidation about dark alleys is unreasonable because your experience with dark alleys is positive. Well my experience was less than positive. I give religion one star, would not recommend. It's also fine for mom to say she won't compromise, what is not OK is for her to, at the same time, demand that I compromise, so yes that ends in me not attending, but to act like it's all my fault is disingenuous. She had the opportunity to treat me like my needs matter, and like she cared about my well being. That is not the choice she made.

    And yes, I avoided them during the wedding and make no bones about it, if it seemed like I was avoiding you it was mostly because you were near them, and if things that I said sounded stilted then it's because

    1. I can only imagine what they (including Meredith) have said about me to you. I'm surprised you don't think I sport a pair of devil horns, so I'm not really sure how to interact with you because I'm sure they impinge my character even worse behind my back than the do to my face, and I'm not sure if you believe those things, though I'm getting the impression that you do which is too bad, I am not really so bad.

    2. I'm not sure how anything I say may be taken out of context, over the years mom and dad have blamed me for a number of things including Meredith being a lesbian, and the fact that neither of you share their religious beliefs. After I confessed to them I was not a Christian when you were younger they would not let me be in the same room with either one of you because they didn't trust me around children, A week before the wedding mom sent an email to Megan "warning" her about how I "spin" the truth. She basically called me a liar (Megan was more angry about this than I was because I've come to expect this stuff), do I have no right to be angry about those things and the other myriad of insults over the years? Perhaps you think not, but in any case I rarely speak openly to you about anything because I'm not sure what is "allowed" and what is going to set mom off and make her write some nasty letter or email.

    If you want to change things between us and talk more often that'd be great, but I make it a point to not go where I'm not wanted and I just figured after all the things they have probably said about me you probably didn't want me around all that much.

    P.S. my uncomfortable feelings at Christmas stemmed from mostly small things that add up but nothing that would have taken away from the overall experience. For instance, it was rather frustrating to be roped into meal prayers and sometimes asked to give a blessing when we took turns. I didn't want to do that, but I wasn't really given a choice. They could have worked around me in some way but they didn't. What really made me angry was that when the issue was brought to her attention she basically said she didn't care about my feelings enough to address them. That was the moment I decided that I was done making them a priority in my life, and it may be just coincidence but my life is dramatically better today than it was then.
    December 20 at 12:12am · Edited · Like · 1
    Tom Hascall Cole I'm counting my blessings: my parents and grandparents were all atheists. The only thing to argue about over the solstice dinner was who got a drumstick.


Dylan J. Walker
27 mins · Edited ·

After another in a long series of shitty hateful interactions with my parents I finally decided to cut them off permanently. I specifically asked them not to contact me again.

Two days later I received a message from them. It included a paraphrase of 1 Cor 13:1, implying that I'm incapable of love. This kind of statement is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the despicable behavior I've put up with over the years, but the fact that she could not even respect me enough to honor my request to not contact me, and when she did it was further personal attacks instead of any attempt at apologizing for the multitude of nasty things she has said about me, is more than enough evidence that I made the right call.